Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:21:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Newmedia@aol.com
To: nettime-l@kein.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and internet
Message-ID: <mailman.10326.1361006150.1632.nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Duda:

Fascinating (one more time around the block with IW) while  *completely*
missing any discussion of the social impact of TECHNOLOGY . . .  !!

Not a single mention of the INTERNET (so, your title is misleadingly
wishful) or even of the change from an industrial organization to a
post-industrial one.  No recognition that television and the Net generate  completely
different behaviors and attitudes.  It doesn’t seem this guy has  been paying
much attention.

Wallerstein has indeed been writing about this for 40 years but so were
MANY others — starting in the 1950s (when the “social-scientification” he
mentions began — funded by “Rockefeller” et al), through the 1960s (when the
pent-up tensions broke out, leading to the 1969 Bilderberg meeting on
“social  change,” w/ Daniel Bell and Marshall McLuhan invited to “explain” what
was going  on), into the 1970s (w/ the explosion of “futurist” manifestos,
including  Toffler et al).

We forget this history at our own peril and saying the same thing
over-and-over — while missing the underlying drive of these changes — is just
STUPID.

Mark Stahlman
Brooklyn NY

 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 02:55:05 +0000
From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
To: “nettime-l@mail.kein.org” <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Message-ID: <mailman.10449.1361664365.1632.nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Geopolitics and internet

Mark,

You must have in mind some things:

a) Technology is not neutral and thats no difference in Digital Technology and Internet

b) Merchant Order and Cities, putting things on a historical perspective in geopolitical terms

Merchant Order and Cities

Bruge —- the central rudder stock
Venice —- the caravel
Antwerp —- printing
Genoa —– accounting
Amsterdam — the fluyt
London — the steam engine
Boston —- the piston engine
New York — the electric engine
Los Angeles — the microchip

c) Second about the shift of paradigm in the order city to still maintain geopolitical control

XX                                                  XXI

Oncle Sam                                            Oncle Google

Holywood, California , USA                          Silicon Valley, California, USA

Simulation and Representation Industry              Simulation and Programming Industry

d) how the geopolitical control is related to enterprises each one dominating one field related to the geopolitical control and the digital condition

Facebook —- network control
Linkedin —- professional control
Google —— search control
Apple ——– creative control
Amazon ——- publishers control
Microsoft —- enterprises control
ICANN ——— traffic control
Intel ——— speed control
Linux ——— open source control

We can go on talking about telecom tech, financing and stockchanges softwares systems (FINAZISM), sattelite tech and many more

related to the digital technologies and the Internet.

STUPID is disconsider history and not know that history is repeating itself.

And there is people that thinks they are free …

Duda Valle

 

 
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:04:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet

Duda:

> You must have in mind some things:

Yes, a few things . . .  <g>

> a) Technology is not neutral and that’s no difference
> in Digital Technology and Internet

ALL technology has a *bias*  (particularly, starting with language) —
which does not mean that those who  “use” the technology understand what
this BIAS might be, since few people (even  today) think in terms of
technological environments or the ways that they shape  and define our
behaviors and attitudes.

Yes, Plato was concerned that alphabetic writing would radically change the
human capacity to REMEMBER and he was correct!  But how many on this list,
including the “fans”of the Pre-Socratics, have read Eric Havelock’s
“Preface to Plato”?

> b) Merchant Order and Cities, putting things on a
> historical perspective in geopolitical terms

It’s important the list of technologies you cite ends with the “New York —
electric engine” (i.e. Edison and Tesla) and “Los Angeles — the microchip”
(although, this was actually “Silicon Valley,” not LA, while noting that
the  “customer” was the post-Sputnik “space race,” including both
communications  satellites and ICBMs, which was certainly centered in
SoCal, w/ Lockheed et  al.)

So, what are the BIASES of *electricity* and *silicon* and what did  they
PROVOKE in *cultural* terms?  What happens to people when they  start
launching satellites into orbit?  How does this change our perception  of
what it means to be “global”?

Without “answers” to these questions (or for that matter, without even
understanding the importance of the questions), you will spend a lot of
time  running in circles chasing your own tail and never really get
anywhere  — burdened with the *biases* of earlier technologies!

> c) Second about the shift of paradigm in the order city
> to still maintain geopolitical control

Google was an offshoot of the NSA — based on the intelligence community’s
need for a “database” that could deal with an unlimited amount of
“unstructured”  data (i.e. they paid for the development of Big Table)
followed by the  impulse to be able to “watch” the real-time stream of
*here comes everyone*  “questions.

But that doesn’t mean that “Uncle Google” (or those at Ft. Meade getting
the real-time feed) either know what to do with it or what its wider
implications might mean.

Yes, if “ebola” breaks out in Wichita, then the NSA will quickly know that
people are Googling strange questions about blood coming out of their
orifices  but that’s hardly a sophisticated form of “control” of anything
(including  people’s orifices)!

> d) how the geopolitical control is related to enterprises
> each one dominating one field related to the geopolitical
> control and the digital condition

No.  None of companies  you mention — many of which I know quite well —
are in CONTROL of anything  other than the *forms* they generate and,
ultimately, the influence these forms  have on the wider technological
environment.  They are, if you will, the  technological *environment*
reproducing itself — as if there were no humans  involved.

The “semiotics” of Apple is SATANIC, for instance, since the name “Apple”
and the symbol of the fruit w/ a bite taken out is deliberately lifted from
Genesis and the “temptation” of EVE by the serpent.  Does that mean that
Steve Jobs was promoting the *devil* or (more likely) that he was promoting
the  FAUSTIAN BARGAIN implied by our inclination to “think different”?

Take enough LSD and you meet the *devil*?  What’s “controlling”  what?

> STUPID is disconsider history and not know that
> history is repeating itself.

Yes.  It is STUPID to not  consider what we have already learned.  It is
also *stupid* to only  consider history as a LINEAR “progression” (i.e.
18th century book-based  thinking), when *electricity* pushed us into
thinking in “all around” terms 150+  years ago (i.e the “electric” origins
of “social” science).

But that doesn’t mean that using the “geo-political” (i.e. mostly
“geographical”) frame is the best one or, given its own origins and
historic  context, that it is really informed by what has been learned
in the past century about society and its *formative* relationship with
technology!

The EAR replaced the EYE a long time ago!  So, what happens when the  HAND
replaces the EAR?  (And, if that question doesn’t make any sense to  you,
then what do you “know” about the world we live in?)

Eric McLuhan asserts that we are now living in “next” Renaissance, a
repeating pattern with roughly 400 year “cycles,”  If he’s right, then what
is being RE-BORN (or re-learned) . . . ??

Mark Stahlman
Brooklyn NY